"Murderer's Row"

"gmporschenut also a fan of hondas" (gmporschenut) 08/19/2020 at 09:00 • Filed to: boatlopnik, Navy

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Ulithi Atoll Dec 8 1944. TTyymmnn had a post awhile ago that I remembered to look up. The photo is crazy but then the surrounding atoll is even crazier.

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106 destroyers

29 aircraft carriers

15 battleships

23 cruisers

mooring map

The warships crews were over 100k, let alone transports and supply ships by the dozens, and floating repair docks. For the build up for Okinawa the floating population was over 175K. 

“On a weekly basis 4565 sacks of mail, 262,251 pounds of air freight, and 1269 passengers would land on this airstrip.”

“By 13 March there were 647 ships at anchor at Ulithi, and with the arrival of amphibious forces staging for the invasion of Okinawa the number of ships at anchor peaked at 722"

It should be noted that this was when another fleet was already in action off Iwo Jima.

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facw > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 08/19/2020 at 09:44

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That’s a pretty impressive armada...

Here’s a smaller, but still substantial fleet (especially for peacetime) at anchor at Guantanamo Bay in 1927:

Ash78, voting early and often > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 08/19/2020 at 09:50

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LOT FULL
Text 01258 for remote parking at Marshall Islands, New Guinea, and Australia Park & Ride

PatBateman > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 08/19/2020 at 09:57

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Now, think about how many of the US Navy’s current ships it would take to match the total destructive power of all of those ships combined.  30, maybe?

user314 > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 08/19/2020 at 10:18

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That’s a lot of steel in one place . The US Navy has had fewer than 722 ships total since 1972 .

ttyymmnn > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 08/19/2020 at 10:28

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The most powerful armada ever assembled. Today, the US has about 500 ships total. Remember when Reagan was pushing heavily for the 600-ship navy? I don’t think he ever quite got there. 

ttyymmnn > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 08/19/2020 at 10:32

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Behold the Arsenal of Democracy:

On 7 December 1941, the U.S. Navy had seven aircraft carriers (CVs) and one aircraft escort vessel (AVG) in commission. The CVs were considered warships and the AVG was considered an auxiliary vessel. In addition to these eight ships, the keels of five other CVs had been laid. ( link )

You listed 29 carriers of various class in that armada. Damn.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > PatBateman 08/19/2020 at 10:34

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1 SSBN 

user314 > ttyymmnn 08/19/2020 at 10:43

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594 in ‘87

Snuze: Needs another Swede > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 08/19/2020 at 10:51

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Hell, if the Navy still has any nuclear tipped Tomahawks in inventory a single SSN could do the job...

Snuze: Needs another Swede > PatBateman 08/19/2020 at 11:15

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I think this is an interesting question with a lot of ways to approach it.

The obvious answer, below, is an SSBN with a single Trident D5 missile. Heck, if the Navy has any nuclear Tomahawks in inventory still, a single SSN could do the job.

But what if you take nuclear weapons off the table and only consider submarines ? The problem then becomes literally running out of armament (each sub only holds around 25 torpedos and 12 missiles for VLS equipped boats). So figure 36 weapons per boat, if every shot is a 1 hit kill (not guaranteed) about 21 boats would get the job done.

But modern submarines are so overmatched against anything from back then its not even sporting.

So taking subs out of the equation, the next big overmatch consideration is air power. One Nimitz class carrier can carry 90 aircraft, and lets make the a ssumption that the entir e compliment is F/A-18E s. Each F/A-18E can launch with a max of 17,750 lbs of ordnance, but is limited to 9 hardpoints (the 2 wingtip points are only for air-to-air missiles). That gives an interesting mix of 2000, 1000, and 500 lb bombs. The larger bombs take an entire hard point but the smaller ones can be fitted to racks that hold 2 or 3. There are a lot of other considerations, I don’t know much about arranging plane ordnance, but Ill go out on a limb and say each aircraft can carry anywhere from 9 to 21 bombs and still meet weight requirements.

One entire Nimitz airwing of 90 aircraft could field anywhere from 810 to 1350 bombs. Assuming one hit kills, thats easily enough to sink this whole fleet in one flight. (I’ve been working on the assumption that Ulithi is at its peak of 722 ships).

So right now we’re at 1 SSBN or SSN with nuclear weapons, 21 SSNs with conventional weapons, or one Nimitz class aircraft carrier. I'll have to start thinking about what happens if we take airpower out of the game next and it turns into a surface brawl.  

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Ash78, voting early and often 08/19/2020 at 12:54

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Plenty of parking in the overflow lot at  Leyte

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > user314 08/19/2020 at 12:55

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Granted a couple hundred were probably crude lsts 

benn454 > Snuze: Needs another Swede 08/19/2020 at 12:58

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Assuming one hit kills, especially against heavy cruisers and battleships, is a bit too much of a stretch even with modern weapons, I think.

user314 > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 08/19/2020 at 13:55

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I wouldn’t call the LSTs “crude”; they were uncomplicated, but well thought-out and functional

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > user314 08/19/2020 at 13:56

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True

user314 > Snuze: Needs another Swede 08/19/2020 at 14:04

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The TLAM-N ’s were all retired between ‘08 and ‘13, though the Navy started looking into either un- retiring some, or producing new nuclear cruise missiles, a couple years ago.

There’s also the Ohio, Michigan, Florida and Georgia to consider. Between 2002 and 2008, the four oldest Ohio -class SSBNs were converted to SSGNs, and t hey can carry up to 154 Tomahawks each .

Snuze: Needs another Swede > user314 08/19/2020 at 18:17

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Ahh. That was after my time in working in submarine ordnance, which is why I wasn’t sure.

And I am very familiar with the GNs. I did some work on the Ohio last fall.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > benn454 08/19/2020 at 18:18

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I very much agree, but I wasn’t quite ready to go into that much detail. But I posit that a laser guided, armor piercing 2000 lb bomb, while not sinking a battleship, would put a hurtin' on it.  

benn454 > Snuze: Needs another Swede 08/19/2020 at 21:47

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For sure. And with the standoff capability of cruise missiles, or the speed of modern jets, you’d be able literally bury it in ordnance by the time you’d have to worry about the Mark 7s.

just-a-scratch > user314 08/20/2020 at 01:24

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It’s enough to give a person praise to think about how massive the American manufacturing sector was. That is arguably the most effective advantage the USA had in WWII.